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| Cell Saga Vegeta | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 24 2015, 10:25 PM (1,109 Views) | |
| DBZAOTA482 | Sep 24 2015, 10:25 PM Post #1 |
 
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Vegeta's attitude in the Cell Saga is very often used as a criticism by some for why the saga isn't very good- considering him a "whiny idiot" in contrast to his more "cunning and intelligent" Namek Saga. For example, many have felt his decision to let Cell become perfect (along with Krillin's refusal to shut down #18) was nothing more than a contrivance to move the plot forward. I personally disagree on that notion but... Anyways, do you like him? |
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| Notaka | Sep 24 2015, 10:35 PM Post #2 |
Always Wright
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Meh I don't mind him.It was the beginning of the Vegeta that we all know more and love, especially after Trunks got Killed. He was kind of a baby when he fought against the androids, but he had his moment. I vote yes. |
 "My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig!  | |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Sep 24 2015, 10:41 PM Post #3 |
魔王子
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Yes, I like him. He's probably my least favorite era of Vegeta, but it's a very important part of his arc. He's finally become a Super Saiyan, the most powerful being in the universe in his mind, and he simply had to be reminded that there's always someone better. |
 Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita | |
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| + Pyrus | Sep 24 2015, 10:46 PM Post #4 |
 
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I liked him up until Cell came into the picture. |
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| Thiln | Sep 24 2015, 10:52 PM Post #5 |
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As an actual character whom I was rooting for? No. You could argue that he was as much of an encumbrance to the team as he was an asset. To be fair though, I haven't really cared too much for Vegeta throughout his tenure in DBZ. He epitomises the domination of the series by the Saiyans and their arrogance in later arcs which I dislike. The only time where I liked him was when he became redemptive as Majin Vegeta, and I suspect much of that has to do with the subtle ambiance of the situation. Vegeta in that fight wasn't his usual smash-mouthed egotistical self. There was an underlying sense of resignation, yet a determined hope to set things right because he felt responsible for Buu's release. I don't know. You could just see it in some of his expressions. He represented the hapless underdog who was doing everything he can to somehow succeed. It's not like with Frieza who broke him down psychologically and brought him to the point of tears. Vegeta was a man with a mission against Buu. If I had to put a face to the version of Vegeta whom I appreciate, it would be this one... Spoiler: click to toggle There's none of the usual conceitedness or anger in that expression of his. It's just solemn fortitude and resignation. That's where I believe his character development arguably peaked. |
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| EMIYA | Sep 24 2015, 11:06 PM Post #6 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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Honestly, he may arguably be the best Vegeta in terms of character and development...mainly because unlike the previous Arcs, Vegeta slowly but surely becomes less of a stereotypical antagonist to a more keen anti-hero who finally starts getting some actual development that ultimately ends with him clearly caring for his son and gaining some real humanity. Of course the Boo Arc came and decided to change that all up again and practically just re-do it, except with none of the build up and even new material seems to be changing Vegeta's attitude at times. But regardless of that, its clear that the Cell Arc is when Vegeta really started to change and adapt as a character and by all means, it was a good development from sadistic monster who cared for nobody for himself to a man who underneath all his rough exterior does have a heart. While he's nowhere near as cunning as Namek Vegeta, I think by far he's the better character than...I'll be blunt...all of them. |
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| Darker | Sep 24 2015, 11:29 PM Post #7 |
The Lord of the Dark
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Allow him to reach perfection he said. It will be fun he said.  Stupidest decision ever made in Dragon Ball Z. Good job, Vegeta. |
 Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power. | |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Sep 25 2015, 12:08 AM Post #8 |
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魔王子
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They didn't just redo it. Vegeta was once again faced with the fact that he was inferior to Kakarotto. He had a choice. Go back to the way things were and become as strong or stronger than Kakarotto, or be content with the life he had on Earth and give up chasing his dream of surpassing Kakarotto. He chose the former, but realized he made a mistake and admitted that he had enjoyed life on Earth. You have to understand that Kakarotto is the reason Vegeta even pushes himself to become stronger. He was practically his reason for continuing to exist, and now he has a chance to face him again, but for only one day. You bet Vegeta is going to make rash decisions to finally best the bastard. This whole scenario only furthered his development as a character, it wasn't just a redo as you put it. Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Sep 25 2015, 12:19 AM.
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Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita | |
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| Billa | Sep 25 2015, 02:14 AM Post #9 |
Thala na Gethu!
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Right frm da @$$ whopping he gives to 19 to kicking the crap outta Semi-Cell. Good times~ Hia peak was here imo. Character, power, feats, plot. Rocked! |
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| EMIYA | Sep 25 2015, 03:34 AM Post #10 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I have to disagree on that. By the end of the Cell Arc, Vegeta has clearly become a changed man. It even gets to the point where he admits Goku is better than him and while its not as profound as it was in the Boo Arc it was still something. That Boo Arc should've capitalized on what was already been brought out earlier in Vegeta's character. By the time the last arc finished and we got around the beginning of the Boo Arc Vegeta is clearly a changed man. He's no longer a sadist or hell bent in proving his own domination. In fact, as far as anything is concerned he is the strongest being in the universe and even when Goku comes into the picture, he's still pretty much the second strongest. And yet this one little thing is all it takes for Vegeta to switch sides and what makes this bad is because there is no build up. It could've been great as I've said countless times before if we actually got to see the inner workings of Vegeta's mind and his struggle between his desire to return to the past and his desire to remain seated in his new future. It would've been great to see Vegeta actually get legitimately controlled by Babidi as he pushes Vegeta closer to his past self and Vegeta has to fight against his own pride. You can see how humble Vegeta has become by the beginning of the Boo Arc and there is not one thing presented to us that gives us any reason to think he dislikes it. All it takes is one little moment with Goku and this all comes crashing down. Suddenly Vegeta's evil, he wants to kill people, he hates his new life, he wants to return back to his old self. That lack of build up is what hurts the most. There's nothing to indicate how Vegeta feels until the last moment and it comes out so suddenly. Again, a perfect way to get into Vegeta's head after Goku's battle with Yakon, showing us Vegeta's struggle in what he wants to do and how that's effecting him. This is actually one of the very reasons I hate Dark Walter from Hellsing. You have a character who literally out of the blue, with almost zero build up or development sudden decides to become evil and joins the antagonists side. Worst yet, he was apparently always on the antagonist's side and there is literally not one single thing in either the manga or the OVAs to support it. Then just like Vegeta, Walter realizes "whoops, I messed up..." and tries to atone for himself. I can't like a character's whose build up and development changes so drastically like that and it seems Super is unfortunately following a similar, albeit not as bad, format. Last time we checked Vegeta was content at being #2. That didn't mean he wouldn't strive for more strength but it's clear that being stronger than Goku isn't suppose to be on his top agenda. Super is making it out like this is the biggest issue for Vegeta and that all is lost if he doesn't manage to surpass Goku. In the end, it's doing that same thing a lot of people have mentioned in the past. Vegeta's character has been in a constant state of flux, always changing at a random notice. One moment he's pure evil, next moment he's humble, the next he's got to kill everyone and be stronger than Goku, the next he's admitting his inferiority, next he's doing all he can to surpass Goku. To end a long post, Piccolo is basically Vegeta done right. You have an arrogant and prideful villain who through interaction and sacrifice slowly becomes a better character. There are no sudden jumps or backtracks in his character. Piccolo starts off as evil and arrogant, by the end of the Saiyan Arc, his sacrifice shows that despite being born from the Demon King Piccolo, he still had a heart to give. In the Namek Arc, he's lost that vicious cycle of his and is no longer evil though you can tell a bit of arrogance and pride on his side. Once he fuses with God, Piccolo finally becomes a very humble person who has taken a literal 180 from what he was before. That's what a good developed character is like. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Sep 25 2015, 03:41 AM Post #11 |
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You know people can change their minds right? Just because he changed doesn't mean he won't ever contemplate past thoughts if something triggers them and he slips for a little bit. It's like a person who used to be on drugs, was an alcoholic or smoked cigarettes. Or someone who is married and misses the single life lol
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Sep 25 2015, 03:52 AM.
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IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle
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| EMIYA | Sep 25 2015, 04:15 AM Post #12 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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The difference is that people on drugs need time to change and those who are off drugs don't just get back on suddenly. There's something that impacts their lives that forces them to make the choices they did. Vegeta's biggest issue was the simple fact that Goku was...quite unsurprisingly...stronger than him. And heck to some people the gap wasn't even that big to begin with. But really, Vegeta is like a drug addict and "The Kakarot" is his dope and it's been seven long years, the guy's gone into relapse or something. He needs that Kakarot man and damn it, this is a once in a life time opportunity and its about to leave him. You know how drug addicts are, they will do ANYTHING to get a shot of the good stuff. Which again, could've been an interesting take. Vegeta is so determined to defeat Goku/be the strongest that its like a drug that could've been interfering with his own life and he's got to come to full grips that there are better ways. Just another point where Vegeta could've had some interesting development instead of what we got smacked on. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Sep 25 2015, 04:48 AM Post #13 |
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魔王子
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He had only begun to improve, though.
First of all, it's not a little thing. Surpassing Kakarotto was Vegeta's whole world prior to Kakarotto's death. Secondly, building up to that kinda nullifies the shock value of the reveal that he let Babidi take control of him.
That is not Vegeta's main concern, though. He crafted an excuse to get stronger in order to beat Kakarotto, and Goku called him out on this too. He knew Vegeta wasn't too keen on returning to his evil ways.
Last I checked, Babidi's spell accentuates the evil in one's heart. It's debatable whether or not Vegeta could consciously have killed those people at the Budokai prior to being possessed by Babidi. Vegeta didn't regress, he simply had one more demon to concur, and that was Kakarotto, which was not a problem for those 7 years because he had been dead! |
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Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita | |
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| EMIYA | Sep 25 2015, 05:22 AM Post #14 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Then keep improving. Don't just have the character make a sudden face-heel-turn due to the lightest of circumstances. Ones he shouldn't even be that surprised about now a days.
Building up is something important to character development and characterization. Without it, you get a rushed mess and its better to see Vegeta's development into this side of his then to have it just appear as "shock value"
Again, build that up. Show reasons for this, show us why Vegeta really feels this way. This is something that apparently many Shounen series seem to have an issue with. They feel that they can add just a last minute issue of so called "development" and that's enough. We spend the entire ordeal with Majin Vegeta talking about how he wants to be evil again and defeat Goku and all that jazz. Then it's all "nope, I don't want to actually be evil..." what is then? There's got to be a reason for Vegeta make these rash decisions that...I repeat...have almost no build up.
Then build it up. I can't say this any other way. Vegeta's development, the same with everyone else should be thought provoking and show the change over a period of time. This so called "demon" was a head on collision which Vegeta in a very short period of time, with almost no effort on his part, surpassed. This is what it boiled down to. Vegeta: I want to be evil. Goku: You're wrong. Vegeta: I am. End development. |
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| MetaCooler | Sep 25 2015, 12:35 PM Post #15 |
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Goku had Raditz by the tail and this could have allowed for Piccolo to waste him without killing Goku. Instead he lets him go and is forced to give up his life to take him down. Goku allowed Frieza to power up to 100%, and when he defeated him, allowed him live, resulting in a very real threat to not only Earth but the Universe. Goku did not waste Fat Boo, even though he stated he was capable of doing so, his reasoning being that he wanted to see how Gotenks would fare. This resulted in the Earth being DESTROYED. Vegeta on the other hand has historically been shown to waste no time taking down his enemies. I would ascribe his poor decision making with Cell to his overconfidence in his new ASSJ form, and not least to the Form itself affecting his judgement. So in the interests of fairness, I can't say I don't like Vegeta without also saying I don't like Goku, who has a far longer history of very, very poor decisions. |
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